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A place to meet for Out Of Character(OOC) conversations.
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The Emissary of the Twin Arts: Anyway, that laundromat is a massage parlor now. Used to be you could get your palms read in the front office. Well, it must've been a real superstitious town because that parking lot was always full at noon on the weekdays.
The Emissary of the Twin Arts: But back when it was a laundromat you could go in and do your laundry and even though the washing machine took a dollar and the dryer took a dollar you always had to get an extra quarter for the dryer to make sure everything got dried okay.
The Emissary of the Twin Arts: So you'd go in with three dollars and come out with your laundry and three quarters. And when you came out, there'd be the pickle stand. So you had a choice to make, you could take your laundry and your three quarters and save those quarters for next week, or you could bring home a fat kosher dill.
The Emissary of the Twin Arts: Of course, each pickle would set you back twelve bits. Some people would bring an extra dollar to their laundry. So they'd come out with a dollar and three quarters. Some people would take the three quarters they'd saved from last week and put them with the three quarters from this week, and every other week they'd bring home a pickle. The rest of us, though, would end up with laundry, pickle, and a quarter left over.
The Emissary of the Twin Arts: Now, if you've got laundry in one hand and pickle in the other, what do you do with the quarter? Well, most people would put the quarter in a little squishy coin purse and dangle it from their pocket, which was the fashion at the time. You could get a squishy coin purse from any corner gas store, but the trendy thing to do was to get them from a radio station swag booth.
[OOC Lurker]: I do have a Cross-system question dealing with W:tA. I know I might get names/terms wrong so I apologize now for not having the books with me. The spirit-gift "Sense Unnatural" can tell if someone is Vampire, Changeling or Mage; so, does "Sense Wyrm" pick-up those sworn to House Balor (since they're "Fomorian")? Would Thallain Changelings (or others that have double Unseelie Legacies) &/or the ones sworn to the Shadow Court also "Smell foul" to the protectors of Gaia? This is one of those Cross-system things I can't find reference in any of the books (C;tD or W;tA). With the Fianna having a Camp of Garou that are suppose to be friendly with Changelings (and Uktena/Wendigo Shamans/Theurges supposedly friendly with the Nunnehi), a Thallain might just be seen by a Garou as "Bane-riddled human" (like a Fomor, or one being changed into one).
[OOC Lurker]: I only ask this (like I did my Aura reading question a while back) due to the old (and paternally new) Cross-system possibilities in the Chats. Of course this might be something totally new to the Character; since if they 'scented' "Fae" & "Wyrm" and never came across before. I think the Garou Tribes in question would look into, for 'fear' of Wyrm-taint of their "allies".
Spooky: I'm honestly not sure. If the Formorians are Wyrm aspected, then House Balor/Thallain/Adhene/Shadow Courtiers should. (Well, depending on if you are using an edition where the Shadow Court is a Formirian thing or not) Traditionally "evil" types in games has been, but the Formorians seem to be an utterly primeval Wyld by my reading of the Triat, but I am a Vampire/Mummy/Changeling player, not Werewolf. My inclination on the chats is to say no so we don't have the two problems of Werewolf PCs attacking Changelings on no real pretext. Also, Sense Wyrm could be used to "Out" Shadow Courtiers then (or Thallain who rely on stealth, less an issue for Balor or Adhene). All just off the top of my head. Granted I have seen exactly one Werewolf around.
: It's not so cut and dry with Werewolf. Taint is more then just a scent that makes Garou go berserk. That scent comes from corruption. While White Wolf did implement loose systems to interpret other Supernatural types as such (high Entropy Resonance for Mage, low Humanity for Vamp etc) it really should be more a case-by-case basis with some games. I would say it depends on how "corrupt" the creature is. Garou are notorious for not getting along with other critter types, but usually they need a reason to go sniffing for that corruption also. Most Garou will see a Fae as just another guy on the streets. Also Garou have their own type of Fomorian (not Fomori) that were detailed in Apocalypse. I don't quite know their relation with the ones in Changeling but they were their version of "bad guys" so to speak. Also there are a few Werewolves around but they seem to come and go
: *sniffs around*
The Emissary of the Twin Arts: *fishing in the pickle pit* Hmm, nothing's biting today...
[OOC Lurker]: I understand both Spooky's & BlackLurker's POV. Going from "Book of the Wyld" & "Possessed" (another WoD Book), there aren't suppose to be Humanoid 'Gorgon' (possessed by a Wyld-spirit) creatures; though the Dreamspeaker Magi however, as masters of spirit magick who see spiritual essence in all things, assert that Changelings are in fact a of Gorgon. This would go with the C;tD & "Freak Legion"; that if a Changeling become a (Bane possessed) Fomor, their Faerie-Soul is destroyed/unmade. Though, like the 'Fire-Catchers' (a Blue-Ridge/Smoke-Mountain version of 'Wind-o-whips') out of "Rage Across Appalachia", the Thallain changelings might just be "primeval Wyld" that feed of the life force (Ravaging) of those that are lead to their fate. I also agree with BlackLurker that "Sense Wyrm" isn't an absolute, & should be handled on a case-by-case basis. Though, I'd like to know exactly what (& where) they're referencing Fomorian out of Apocalypse.
[OOC Lurker]: Staying on "Sense Wyrm" for the moment, on pg. 275 of W;tA Rev Ed in the [It's Not "Detect Evil"] sidebar, many things can set it off & it's up to the players/Storyteller to figure it out. One bit of isn't so easy to answer; is "The Dark" the Wyrm in another form &/or servant there of (as in Supreme Nightmare Bane)? That's a Meta-game question I'd prefer most Storytellers to handle in there own games, though does allow for philosophical debate here. Now referencing from both "Freak Legion" & "Rage Across Appalachia", Fomori Family members can wreak of taint without possession. They're raised in an environment to promote the likelihood of becoming Bane riddled by doing many of the dark deeds the Thallain Changelings have been noted for in order to Ravage. Those that are 'deemed worthy' (loose interruption) get to become one of the number of Fomori in the family through a forced/twisted version of the Baptism/Chrysalis/First-Change (is how Fomorians of Lore first originated?).
: Page 193 of Apocalypse are the Fomorians I am referring to (The Lost Giants, which the Fianna dubbed the Fomorians). The reason the Fomori Families from Rage Across Appalachia or any source book "wreaks" is because of the environment and likely behavior they live in and perform. They don't have to be Bane possessed to be "of the Wyrm" since there are normal people all the time who are such. The Wyrm works in subtle ways, hence the Defiler Wyrm and not all it's minions are supernatural in nature which is what makes the Wyrm frightening. Serial killers would smell of the Wyrm, but act of their own volition and may not need that Bane pushing them. Remorseless soldiers who take a little too much pleasure in killing innocents in war might even have a touch of the Wyrm to them. Even generally apathetic, turns-a-blind-eye-to-the-bad-of-the-world folks likely have a tiny scent of Wyrm Taint. A individual wolfing down O'Tollys daily, not caring the conditions the animals were put through and how badly the employee who served them is treated also likely holds taint. Sense Wyrm is meant to somewhat detect the scent in an area but it's hard to pin it on a person more often then not. But as far as crossover goes, especially in an open setting such is this, it really should be handled maturely and not be used as a reason (ever, really) to simply go after other characters. Garou are already bad enough that they are very misunderstanding of other Supernaturals, so it can get hectic if someone uses it for an excuse to attack other PCs. Usually if a Garou is to act in such a fashion, hopefully they learned from other means verses a level 1 Gift just being used. Also crossover gets hectic period in cases because one game will have one standard while another has another. Look at the Umbra in all games that have it for example. Rarely does it "line up" to fully match another games perception. So what one game considers "evil" may not necessarily be in another. There are noble Balor just as much as their are tyrannical Gwydion, Really it boils down to does the character serve corruption. It's also hard to judge if the Shadow Court as a whole is because it was very poorly explained. A lot of old Changeling books contradict each other. In some cases one could argue their agenda could serve the Wyrm, in others not so cut and dry. I would always say leave it up to the storyteller(s) to make that kind of ruling. Since chances are if the Shadow Court is present in a game, they have a guiding hand in such and which "version" they have in play
[OOC Lurker]: I can see your passion, BlackLurker, & thank you for the reference because I do actually have that book. I'll get back to that in a moment. Though, not meant as a slight, I had to take time to read what you wrote twice, to hopefully know what you're meanings are. Also, I'm grateful that the Sys-op of the side has not placed the code that actually limits statement size, or I wouldn't have been able to do so at over 2,500 characters (with spaces). Though, I came here to debate/discuses in a mature manner the subject, you seem to have taken a darker interruption to my line of inquiry. Most of your points I've already answered with my prior posting about "Sense Wyrm" on pg. 275 of W;tA Rev Ed in the [It's Not "Detect Evil"] sidebar. On the line of yours of "if someone uses it for an excuse to attack other PCs," I can't read that in any of my posts to this as point, nor was it my implication that it would happen in such a manner with matured & seasoned players of the chatrooms as they are.
[OOC Lurker]: Now, for the subjects of books & there inconstancies (why couldn't WWGS departments just go across the hall & talk to each other?!). 'Apocalypse' was of the Mind's Eye Theater (MET, or the LARP books for WWGS table-top RPG system(s)) books. Back stories in game's of Lore, like many myths, might be up for interpretation. Could those "Lost Gaints" have been actually Unseelie Trolls, Ogres, Huge (Size Merit) Redcaps, actual Fomori(W;tA) &/or something else completely? It's unknown, due to the mists of in-game time passing & the oral traditions of the Fianna. This subject also leads then to C;tD inconstancy on how House Beaumayn flaw is to be handled; in which the Shadow Court & Thallain Changelings are suppose to be able to 'feel' Oath-sworn of that House similar to the "Sense Wyrm" gift in W;tA. For crossover - could it mean that Fomori(W;tA), or Black Spiral Dancers, would also attempt to seek members of this House out - because of something started in the past & not remembered?
[OOC Lurker]: Continuing on, as if the waters are not muddied enough at this point, let us add a supplement book that was for neither C:tD or W:tA but had material that could affect both; 'WoD: Sorcerer' & it's sequel. On this I actually preferred the Original for it gave more into the 'what-if' of crossovers, though many things did get ported to M;tA Rev (Merits & Flaws). 'Shape-shifter kinfolk' & 'Faerie Affinity' we know, though they added 'Faerie-Blood' Merit (ported to M:tA Rev). Of which (with how it's wrote) would make the individual a Kinain (with the Fae Gift of An-de-shealladh) to start with - & only the note to refer to "The Enchanted" for more details. They also add a Sorcerer Societues (tinyurl.com/Sorcerer-Societies) known as 'The Fenian' & 'Zolondrodere'. How does the skill Dreamcraft/Lucid Dreaming & numina of Oneiromancy interact with C:tD? As suggested by W:tA/C:tD in "The Enchanted", would Spiritual Summoning/Binding/Warding numina work on Chimera as the Gifts(W:tA) would?